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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lannovar View Post
    I am seeing a blank in the vars.teamkillkickforban at the moment. Supporting that is the fact the server banlists are not increasing. Given how many TK's are done, we should have a lot more on the ban list by now.

    I confirmed we are running R12 and our server has the vars.preset Hardcore.
    I hope you are right. If you have Procon, go to the Console window and type:

    vars.teamKillKickForBan

    What number does it return? I bet it returns 3, even if your Startup.txt has blank.

    Your ban list might not be update due to some other bug. It's evidence, but not totally reliable as proof. It would be better to do an actual experiment and teamkill on purpose and count the number of kicks until you are banned.
    Don't send me private messages (PMs) unless you really need privacy, like your game server password. If you just have a question or need help, post in one of the threads. It's extra work for me to answer questions and give help in private messages and no one else gets the benefit of the answer.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlon View Post
    I'm having difficulty in following.

    Is there a way we can currently keep a player form being auto-banned if he stays on our server for several rounds and gets a few kicks for TKing?
    According to IAF SDS's testimony, you can't be Hardcore in Battlelog and prevent banning with R12, no.
    Don't send me private messages (PMs) unless you really need privacy, like your game server password. If you just have a question or need help, post in one of the threads. It's extra work for me to answer questions and give help in private messages and no one else gets the benefit of the answer.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lannovar View Post
    *comes back, calmer*

    Take a look at your configs and ban lists gentlepersons. Even though the R12 documentation states that a Hardcore server must have;

    vars.teamKillCountForKick 5
    vars.teamKillKickForBan 3

    I am seeing a blank in the vars.teamkillkickforban at the moment. Supporting that is the fact the server banlists are not increasing. Given how many TK's are done, we should have a lot more on the ban list by now.

    I confirmed we are running R12 and our server has the vars.preset Hardcore.
    I don't know what you mean by "I am seeing a blank in vars.teamkillkickforban at the moment." It is actually irrelevant what your startup.txt shows for these variables, because the vars.preset Hardcore variable will override your settings. If you have any doubts, open up your console and type vars.preset Hardcore [ENTER]. Then type vars.teamKillKickForBan [ENTER] and you will see it returns a fixed value of 3. If you then change this value by typing vars.teamKillKickForBan 10 [ENTER], you will confirm it made your server CUSTOM by typing vars.preset [ENTER] to show its current preset. (When you're done testing, type vars.preset Hardcore [ENTER] to get your server back to HardCore.)

    I spent hours confirming this in my server last night. Grab a clan member, and TK him 10 times in one round and then only 5 times in the next round. You'll get banned. The ban won't show up right away in ProCon for some reason until you refresh the ban list, but it will be there and you won't be able to enter your own server.

    Next, remove the ban and just kill 5 more times and you'll get an instant TeamKillBan because it remembers you were kicked two times before.

    Right now, this is going to affect the players who play for hours and hours on your server every day. This is why it has already banned IAF members, because they play for hours and hours daily on our servers. If your average player only plays an hour or two while staying below 15 tks, and if the server is restarted at night, then they won't get banned. But put a 2 round metro/locker type map in rotation, or put those two maps back to back, with 64 players, and you'll see the bans. This should be most noticeable on servers that run just Metro/Locker and have players who will play for hours and hours daily.

    It bans you by Name with the reason "TeamKillBan" which can be found quickly. I have had a few of them, by players who play for many hours in my servers every day. It essentially bans those who are loyal to your server.

    When this game stabilizes and servers are not crashing to reset these teamkill counts, or when servers aren't restarted nightly because they stay full around the clock, this will become more of a noticeable issue without some kind of a reset trigger because the teamkill count will keep accumulating (in more than 2 hours of testing, it did not reset itself).



    Quote Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9 View Post
    Here's a paragraph to add to Phil_K's.

    In terms of server settings:

    vars.teamKillValueForKick, full range: 0-10, allowing disable, or 4-15, increase maximum to 15

    vars.teamKillKickForBan, full range: 0-10, allowing disable, or 3-15, increase maximum to 15

    Reset the teamKillValueForKick counter on each player after EITHER a) the player is kicked (but not voluntarily leaves), or b) end of the current round, whichever comes first. The counter should not be reset if a player voluntarily leaves, because they could exploit the reset of the counter by just leaving/rejoining in the same round.

    The teamKillKickForBan counter should not be reset as long as the game-server is up. This is to avoid an exploit where a player goes on a team-kill spree every round, stopping just short of the ban limit.
    Papa, I agree with everything you said except your last paragraph about not resetting the teamKillKickForBan counter as long as the game server is up. This would be a mistake and it is currently the root of the problem, because if your server does not restart daily, and a player gets just 3 teamkills per day, by the end of the week he will be perma banned from the server when he finally hits 15 tks. In other words, 3 tks per day X 5 days = TeamKillBan.

    We have our own teamkill system (similar to the one you created) that will kick the player automatically a few times and then temp ban him if he keeps coming back to TK in that round. It works well more than 99% of the time, as long as DICE's TeamKillBan system doesn't interfere. You can't distinguish between the rare person who intentionally teamkills a few times each round and everyone else who teamkills by accident. If someone is teamkill trolling every round just enough to avoid being kicked, the players will vote ban him if an admin doesn't get rid of him first.

    I don’t ban for teamkills because it is totally unnecessary almost all of the time. TeamKillers are kicked a few times, and if they don't lose interest and keep coming back, they are temp banned to cool off. In two years of using this system in BF3, I have only had to ban a few people who came back daily just to teamkill troll. The temp ban works well because they lose interest and move on. With my teamkill system, it doesn’t matter if the player is kicked or voluntarily leaves because it maintains his count and has different levels of action as the count increases, all until a new round starts.
    Last edited by IAF SDS; 27-11-2013 at 08:37.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by xFaNtASyGiRLx View Post
    Hey IAF- could you or someone here possibly summarize this post into a small paragraph so that we can forward this in the email GCN is sending to DICE this week? It does appear to be an important issue.
    Thanks

    It is wise and much appreciated to have this important issue brought up and pursued formerly in the GCN email as Fantasy suggests above.

    Here’s the summary from the different discussions above you that could use for your GCN email:




    To: DICE

    We would appreciate your consideration and help with an issue affecting Hardcore Ranked servers as of patch R11/R12. We hope this will be addressed soon by your team because it creates a hardship for Ranked Hardcore servers and its consequences include permanent bans against some innocent players.

    The Problem as of R11/R12: This issue specifically concerns Ranked Hardcore servers. The current TeamKill restricted variables create a broken system that will punish and BAN innocent players who are loyal and dedicated to a particular hardcore server. This same system also breaks well established and existing teamkill punishment systems that have been in effect and working properly for two years in BF3 hardcore servers.

    The Reason: The root of the problem is the vars.teamKillKickForBan variable now being restricted on Ranked servers to 3 instead of allowing us to disable it in Ranked, because if your server does not restart daily, and a player gets just 3 teamkills per day, by the end of the week he will be perma banned from the server when he finally hits 15 teamkills. In other words, just 3 teamkills per day X 5 days = TeamKillBan. This perma ban can even happen in one day if a player gets only 5tks each round for only 3 maps (5 tks x 3 maps = 15 tks = TeamKillBan).

    If you set your server to Hardcore, by using vars.preset Hardcore, it INSTANTLY changes your vars.teamKillCountForKick to 5 and your vars.teamKillKickForBan to 3. If, at any time you change the vars.teamKillCountForKick and vars.teamKillKickForBan values to anything different from 5 and 3 respectively, it INSTANTLY changes your server from Hardcore to CUSTOM. Custom is a death sentence for most servers, even for the largest clans around. In other words, Hardcore servers are now stuck with vars.teamKillCountForKick at 5 and vars.teamKillKickForBan at 3.

    Right now, this is going to affect the players who play for hours and hours on your server every day. This is why it has already banned our clan members, because they play for hours and hours daily only on our servers. If your average player only plays an hour or two while staying below 15 tks, and only if the server is restarted at night, then they won't get banned. But with a 2 round metro/locker type map in rotation, or if those two maps are back to back with 64 players, you'll see the bans. This should be most noticeable on servers that run just Metro/Locker and have dedicated players who will play for hours and hours daily.

    The decay variables (for example, we use vars.teamKillValueForKick 10, vars.teamKillValueIncrease 1, and vars.teamKillValueDecreasePerSecond 2) do nothing to prevent this from happening, even though they show holding your set values in the console.

    The Solution: Regarding vars.teamKillKickForBan, we need back our ability to completely disable the vars.teamKillKickForBan variable on Ranked Hardcore servers the way we have been successfully doing so in BF3. In fact, the default value for vars.teamKillKickForBan in BF3 Ranked Hardcore servers is 0 for a reason. A max value for Ranked Hardcore should be set to allow vars.teamKillKickForBan a range from 0 to 15.

    Regarding vars.teamKillCountForKick, we also need this to not be limited to 5 and bumped up to at minimum 10 (preferably 15 so it does not interfere with our existing teamkill forgive/punish system) on Ranked Hardcore servers. A max value for Ranked Hardcore should be set to allow vars.teamKillCountForKick a range from 0 to 15.







    Last edited by IAF SDS; 27-11-2013 at 13:05.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9 View Post
    I hope you are right. If you have Procon, go to the Console window and type:

    vars.teamKillKickForBan

    What number does it return? I bet it returns 3, even if your Startup.txt has blank.

    Your ban list might not be update due to some other bug. It's evidence, but not totally reliable as proof. It would be better to do an actual experiment and teamkill on purpose and count the number of kicks until you are banned.
    My report yesterday was only from checking the startup.txt and banlists so yes, it may be flawed.

    I have procon (why else be on this wonderful, creative site? ) but I'm not able to try this on the proper client until tonight. I did try it on the iPad version from work just now and it returned "unknown command". We have the plugin simplecommand that sends the vars.preset hardcore every hour, in case of crashes but I sent it manually to doublecheck before entering "vars.teamKillKickForBan".

    I do not doubt TS findings, I doubt EA's implementation of the restrictions. Will check in about ten hours.

    Edit: The vars.teamKillKickForBan comes back "command unknown" if used in a layer, directly connected however with procon it comes back with the value 3.
    Last edited by Lannovar; 27-11-2013 at 18:49.


  6. #16
    Developer
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    Münster(Westf.), Germany
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    Hi.

    Quote Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9 View Post
    Your ban list might not be update due to some other bug. It's evidence, but not totally reliable as proof. It would be better to do an actual experiment and teamkill on purpose and count the number of kicks until you are banned.
    Can you provide some console log samples showing the ban event?
    It might be that the regex used to catch bans coming through has to be modified.
    What also might be a reason why my plugin does not announce bans at the moment..

    Greets
    Phil.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by IAF SDS View Post
    Papa, I agree with everything you said except your last paragraph about not resetting the teamKillKickForBan counter as long as the game server is up.
    Keep in mind that I'm also asking for either a) disable auto-banning or b) increase the maxes to 15 x 15. I think auto-banning after 225 team-kills is an acceptable risk. Remember that this is to avoid the exploit of players resetting their kick count by leaving/rejoining.
    Last edited by PapaCharlie9; 27-11-2013 at 19:08.
    Don't send me private messages (PMs) unless you really need privacy, like your game server password. If you just have a question or need help, post in one of the threads. It's extra work for me to answer questions and give help in private messages and no one else gets the benefit of the answer.

  8. #18
    I can confirm we have a automatic player TeamKillBan in our Procon banlist now. Will try to find the entire log of the action.

    Event log distilled:
    Line 2293: Playerlist 11-29-2013 09:22:45 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 2406: Playerlist 11-29-2013 09:28:22 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled SnipeR776
    Line 2413: Playerlist 11-29-2013 09:28:52 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled SnipeR776
    Line 2499: Playerlist 11-29-2013 09:32:42 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled ManeXXX
    Line 2511: Playerlist 11-29-2013 09:33:01 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled ManeXXX
    Line 2854: Playerlist 11-29-2013 09:42:31 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled SnipeR776
    Line 2855: Playerlist 11-29-2013 09:42:31 PlayerLeave datsgoks left the server
    Line 2874: Playerlist 11-29-2013 09:42:55 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 3469: Playerlist 11-29-2013 09:56:03 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled Plantele
    Line 3710: Playerlist 11-29-2013 10:01:23 PlayerLeave datsgoks left the server
    Line 10539: Playerlist 11-29-2013 12:40:41 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 10591: Playerlist 11-29-2013 12:41:47 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 11573: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:03:33 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled Kapten_Gezus
    Line 11971: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:09:25 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled Kapten_Gezus
    Line 12052: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:10:46 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled Snipez1986
    Line 12132: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:11:58 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled NIKKKE
    Line 12154: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:12:10 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled Johnny_Mordor
    Line 12155: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:12:10 PlayerLeave datsgoks left the server
    Line 12202: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:12:33 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 12355: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:14:35 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled elakefisk
    Line 13169: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:31:33 PlayerSuicide datsgoks
    Line 13519: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:39:21 PlayerLeave datsgoks left the server
    Line 13588: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:40:39 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 13676: Playerlist 11-29-2013 13:42:26 PlayerLeave datsgoks left the server
    Line 19665: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:05:49 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 19843: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:10:06 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 19981: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:12:57 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 20105: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:15:27 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 20252: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:19:18 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 20426: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:23:14 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 20895: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:31:13 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled LiljehammaR
    Line 21191: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:35:18 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled Murt6651
    Line 21336: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:37:38 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled Murt6651
    Line 21392: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:38:11 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled bfbiffen
    Line 21394: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:38:17 PlayerTeamKilled datsgoks teamkilled Murt6651
    Line 21395: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:38:17 PlayerLeave datsgoks left the server
    Line 21490: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:39:34 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 21664: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:42:09 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 21686: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:42:26 PlayerLeave datsgoks left the server
    Line 21784: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:44:00 PlayerJoin datsgoks joined the server
    Line 21796: Playerlist 11-29-2013 16:44:22 PlayerLeave datsgoks left the server
    And at the end we see the player not understanding why he can't join again and leaves a final time.
    Last edited by Lannovar; 29-11-2013 at 16:31.


 

 

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